Light ROM 4/Light ROM 4 - Disc 1.iso/text/net_news/1996/041996.doc/text0001.txt

Text File | 1996-04-29 | 30.8 KB | 759 lines

Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: Re: My take on NAB: 3DS MAX vs. LW 5.0
Date: 21 Apr 1996 01:10:02 -0700
Organization: Primenet [phone]
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Michael Justin Austin <[e-mail]> wrote:
: On Apr 19, 1996 19:40:00 in article <Re: My take on NAB: 3DS MAX vs. LW
: 5.0>, '[e-mail] (steve)' wrote:
:
: a few flaws in your thinking
:
: why do you want to animate the modeling process?

There are a lot of custom effects that you can do that way (as is often
done in Prisms). If you can animated individual vertices (as you can
control points in Animation Master) you get much more organic characters
because they don't have entire objects morphing at once, but rather parts
of the face might get to their target a few frames before others.

Also, if you have construction history, you can go back several steps
in the modeling process, change something and ripple it forward in time.
This would be especially true in Metanurbs.

: Many people prefer separate modeler and layout.

Have you used programs with unified modeler and layout? I don't know
anyone who's used a unified program who would willingly go back to
a separated modeler and animation stage.

: >Nope (yes in Characture Studio)    Bones
: dont you mean a plug-in?

I don't think they are separate in MAX, except for the Biped plug-in.
Biped is seriously bizarre, and describing it isn't easy. I think
if sales of LW pick up, many MAX plugins will be made for LW, since
I did hear of some interest in that direction.

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steph Greenberg              "Whenever I truly think something can't be
[e-mail]            done, that is when I redouble my efforts to
                  prove myself wrong."

Copyright 1996. All Rights Reserved. Permission granted for non-commercial
electronic republication only, such as Usenet and Email, and
non-commercial educational purposes such as charge free WWW pages.
Express permission is required for any other use. When in doubt, ask.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From: [e-mail](William Teegarden)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: Re: LW Features?
Date: 20 Apr 1996 17:04:48 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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In <4l9c09$[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Vince Tourangeau) writes:
>
>
>I'm a Mac user getting sorta excited by LW coming for PowerMac, but I
>gotta ask a few questions. I realise not too many people are sure
what's
>in v5.0, so thanks for any help.
>        LW 5.0 doesn't support animated textures -- what gives?

I don't know where this rumor started, but any texture in LW is
animatable.


>        Does LW do displacement mapping?

Yes.

>    Does v5 allow for plug-in renderers?

Yes.

>    How are plug-ins implemented? A features list (MAX vs. LW) says
they
>aren't seamless. Exactly what was meant by this? (I plan to write
plenty
>of plug-ins for whichever rendering package I get, so this is pretty
>important to me.)

They aren't seamless in the sense that they have there own dialogue box
requesters and such.  They do however "look" like the LW interface.


>    What kind of learning curve are we talking here? Is the program
>intuitive to use? I'm the type who doesn't like to read manuals unless
>it's of vital importance. Will need to read the ones that come with
LW?

It wouldn't hurt to do the tutorials, unless you're already proficient
in 3D, in which case you should be able to jump right in.


>    As for cross-platform stuff, are the manuals unique to each
>platform, or is the interface fairly universal, and the manulas
weren't
>re-written for different platforms?

The interface is universal across all platforms, so if you already have
seen the Amiga or PC versions, you can bet the MAC one will look the
same.  Documentation should only vary where specific functions
(hardware) exist only on certain platforms.


>    Can you control the resolution of shadow maps? Does LW render
soft
>shadows?

You can control the shadow map rez to any size you wish.  LW has a
shadow fuzziness control, but it only works for shadow maps, not traced
shadows.


>    Does the Mac version have a Mac look-and-feel?

No, it looks like the Amiga and PC versions.


>    Does/will the PowerMac version support QuickDraw3D and will it
>import 3DMF files?

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From: Steph Greenberg <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: Re: My take on NAB: 3DS MAX vs. LW 5.0
Date: 21 Apr 1996 01:13:02 -0700
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Gord Davison <[e-mail]> wrote:
: >Modeless                       Modeler/Layout still exist as two
:                 IMPORT/EXPORT of data/objects
:   I personally don't see this as a deficiency. I haven't seen the MAX implementation
:   but the only other *modeless* program I have used is trueSpace. Suffice to say, if
:   *their* modeless interface is a harbinger of UIs to come, then be afraid. Be very
:   afraid. I'll reserve judgement on MAX until I see their UI in action. I've heard it's
:   quite functional, though.

Other "modeless" programs include Alias and Softimage.

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steph Greenberg              "Whenever I truly think something can't be
[e-mail]            done, that is when I redouble my efforts to
                  prove myself wrong."

Copyright 1996. All Rights Reserved. Permission granted for non-commercial
electronic republication only, such as Usenet and Email, and
non-commercial educational purposes such as charge free WWW pages.
Express permission is required for any other use. When in doubt, ask.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From: [e-mail] (wayne weinstein)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation,comp.graphics.apps.lightwave,comp.graphics.apps.photoshop,comp.graphics.packages.3dstudio,comp.os.ms-windows.apps.utilities,comp.os.ms-windows.apps.utilities.win3x,comp.os.ms-windows.apps.utilities.win95,alt.2600,alt.bi
Subject: Re: WIN95 better than OS/2 PLEASE!!!!
Date: 21 Apr 1996 08:38:25 GMT
Organization: Your Organization
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>You have stated your case in the words I would use.
I have worked with OS/2 for years. It is light years ahead of all of Uncle
Billy's stuff. If Windows NT is so woderful why does it have limited
hardware support. Better yet it has no tech support at all. I have torun
bot NT and 95 at work and it gives nothing but problems. OS/2 runs all my
apps just perfect.


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From: [e-mail] (Stranahan)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation,comp.graphics.apps.lightwave,comp.graphics.packages.3dstudio
Subject: Re: MAX or Lightwave? How about some MAX here folks.
Date: 21 Apr 1996 04:43:18 -0400
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------------
I would like to see someone copy the effects produced in "The End", "The
Boxer",
or even "City of Lost Children". I find it very hard to believe that any
PC
animation software would be up to the task....
------------

I love it when people say stuff like this - the correct answer is; "Okay,
pay me and I'll show you what you want to see." Those animations were NOT
done for free...

LightWave is a tool, and in the right hands I've not seen anything it
can't do. It's a cliche, but it's the ARTIST, not the tool. You hiring or
just talking?


_____________________________________________
Lee Stranahan

"I shot a half hour, 35mm movie with professional quality visual effects
for around $5000 - and I can show you how to do it, too."
Access DeniedURL - http://users.aol.com/stranahan/access.htm

Lee's Home Page URL - http://users.aol.com/stranahan/main.htm

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From: [e-mail] (Tim Krego)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: Re: My take on NAB: 3DS MAX vs. LW 5.0
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 18:49:44 GMT
Organization: pro.image
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On 20 Apr 1996 00:37:05 -0400, [e-mail] (VirtualBri) wrote:
>>Interactive Texture Placement  Nope
>>UV Mapping                     Nope
>Fori s Power Texture, a plug-in shown on the floor allows interactive
>texture placement and UV Mapping

Yes, Fori's plugin is in LW 5.0.

>>Volumetric Lights/Shadows      Nope
>NewTek said there would be a plug-in by summer.

What! I gotta buy a plugin!? Well MAX has that built-in. :) This is
heavy sarcasim there, I'm sick of the LW users that yiped about 3DSR4
not having lensflares and bones. Which BTW, quite a few people don't
need lensflares or bones in 3DSR4. If you do consider the extra price
when buying your program.

>>Animatable Booleans            Nope
>What would you use this for that a morph wouldn t do?

Well morphing would work, but since the booleans are parametric you
can change the values later without having to make your morph targets
again. That would save time I suppose.

>>Unlimited Cameras              One Camera
>You can t use more than one camera rendering, so what s the big deal?

That was a big feature request for some 3DS users.

>>Modeless                       Modeler/Layout still exist as two
>So?  This is pretty minor at best.

Not really once you have used it. I'm not just talking about seperate
Modeler and Layout. Everything works as if it were integrated even
plugins added down the road.

>>Frontal Projection with shadows    Yes
>Explain?

You have a background image that can accept shadows.

>>Seamless Plugin Architecture    Nope
>What is "seamless" besides a marketing ploy?  When I use a plug-in, I pull
>up the menu and use it.  What s not seamless about that?

Not marketing BS. The plugins in LW mostly jump you out of the
program. In Fori's PowerView can't be open and use the Modeler at the
same time. This may be a bad example now that LW 5.0 has OpenGL, but
other plugins work in a similar way. Has NewTek expanded the LW 5.0
architecture? I haven't seen it yet.

>Not trying to start a flame war, just interested in legitimate advantages
>of MAX, like its keyframe control,  over marketing BS.

Same here. Just trying to give accurate info and help.

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From: [e-mail] (GoonBag)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: Re: LW 5.0 at NAB
Date: 21 Apr 1996 05:05:33 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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   I saw a quick preview for the Sliders episode with the Allosaurus that
Ken and Don did.

   It looked absolutely amazing.


Karl

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From: [e-mail] (Curt Maughs)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation,comp.graphics.apps.lightwave,comp.graphics.apps.photoshop,comp.graphics.packages.3dstudio,comp.os.ms-windows.apps.utilities,comp.os.ms-windows.apps.utilities.win3x,comp.os.ms-windows.apps.utilities.win95,alt.2600,alt.bi
Subject: Re: WIN95 better than OS/2 PLEASE!!!!
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 14:28:34 GMT
Organization: RPI-Center for Infrsstructure
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I say keep what you have until you can buy a new computer with 16 MB
of RAM and then decide between NT 4.0 or OS/2 (since you can still do
alot things in console mode without running the GUI. wish 95 or NT
could do that!!!) since the new version coming out is even better than
Warp.

Passenger <[e-mail]> wrote:

>Just a small question, I am currently running Win3.1 and am
>looking to maybe switch operationg systems.  I got some
>money for a change and if the right os comes along I will
>probably buy it.  Thing is my computer is not particularly
>high spec (please no more _my tech is shitter than your tech threads_,
>or was that on this newsgroup?) but runs everything I use ok.
>486dx 4mb ram 256 cache etc etc etc
>I would probably follow the masses and get win95 but
>apparently the performance I would get on my 4mb would
>not be worth it. Even then, win95 bugs the hell out of me.
>I read the os/2 v's the rest articles and am unsure wether to
>get it or.  I use my computer mainly for running a few windoze
>applications for work and my net connection but the windoze applic's
>could be sacrificed if a more efficient connection could be achieved.
>I have no qualms about learning a bunch of bugger-to-type-in commands
>and am happier running in dos-type enviroments any way.
>So I throw my query open to the masses . . .




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From: [e-mail](Christopher Watson )
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: Problem AVIFIL32.DLL
Date: 20 Apr 1996 19:02:41 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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Message-ID: <4lbcch$[e-mail]>
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X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Apr 20  2:02:41 PM CDT 1996

I am running LW4.0 on Intel. Just up graded to Win 95 and tried to
render some animation and got this message

" error starting program
  the AVIFIL32.dll file is linked to missing export NTDLL.DLL:memmove"

Any sugestions.


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From: [e-mail] ("Phil South")
Subject: Re: Newsgroup Charter - Slight Reminder
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Compulink Information eXchange
References: <4ku7ts$[e-mail]>
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 10:46:24 GMT
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> Stop the Insanity?  Susan Powter, please call your office.
>
> Or maybe we should fragment into any one of the following newsgroups:
>
>       alt.stranahan
>       alt.newtek.vs.play
>       alt.newtek.recovery
>       alt.religion.3d

Not forgetting of course:

        alt.os2.vs.win95
        alt.lw5.is.out.yet?
        alt.nab.press.releases
        alt.gimme.cracked.lightwave
        alt.how.do.you.make.good.objects.like.on.b5

:?)

---
-------------------------------------------------------------
Phil South <[e-mail]>   "nuqDaq yuch Dapol"

Home Page                     http://www.webscape.co.uk/phil/
Webscape Ltd                        http://www.webscape.co.uk
-------------------------------------------------------------

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From: [e-mail] (vidiform)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: Lightwave videos  (get them all for one price) (ask info)
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 11:00:47 GMT
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From: [e-mail](Joe Schrengohst )
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: Re: Can anyone email me lightwave?
Date: 20 Apr 1996 20:47:04 GMT
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>
>We've just had 3 DEC Alphas, each with 1 gig of main memory (!!!!)
delivered....
>unfortunately they are not for rendering LW anims on :-(   make you
sick :-( Maybe
>I can sneek in at night at use them :-)
>
>
>
>Stu
>
What do you need 1 GIG of memory for on one machine if you are not
doing 3D what are you doing? And what company do you work for?
JS


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From: [e-mail] (Tim Krego)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation,comp.graphics.apps.lightwave,comp.graphics.packages.3dstudio
Subject: Re: MAX or Lightwave? How about some MAX here folks.
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 18:35:09 GMT
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On Sat, 20 Apr 96 08:30:23 GMT, [e-mail] wrote:
>> Reviewing a beta copy of MAX that's dated "January 18" is like Car and
>> Driver reviewing an automobile by looking at a chassis, sans engine and
>> body panels.

>Or like people comparing Max to Lightwave 4.

Considering LW 5.0 was just shown for the first time this week most of
us didn't have any info on it. Feel free to compare LW 5.0 to MAX.

Now we get to gripe about comparing a shipping program (MAX) to a
non-shipping program (LW 5.0). Considering NewTek's track record...
You've got 4-6 weeks to wait.

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From: [e-mail] (Tim Krego)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: Re: LightWave 5.0 at NAB
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 18:35:12 GMT
Organization: pro.image
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On 19 Apr 1996 20:26:36 -0400, [e-mail] (Freddric) wrote:
>The people at the digimation booth. Told me that they had a hard time
>trying to get newtek to give them a SDK. It took them 3 to 4 months and
>going through five reps before newtek finally gave them a beta copy of
>5.0.

NewTek may have been worried Digimation would have let Kinetix get a
peek at it.

>But since they've gotten the beta, they said they were writing plug
>ins for lightwave.

>I thought I'd say this because, they have a plugin for 3dr4 called inferno,
>which is simply awesome. It's like have alias animator for under $500.00.

That is LenZFX Inferno. It does lensflares, focus (dof,rack), glows,
hilites, explosions, etc.

All the LW guys get off saying 3DSR4 doesn't come with lensflares and
bones. We have to purchase them seperately and they blow away the LW
versions. LW 5.0 still misses some of the features in LenZFX Inferno
2.1 and Bones Pro 1.5 for 3DSR4. The MAX versions will be shipping in
2-3 months and will probably be a jump up from the 3DSR4 versions.



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From: [e-mail] (Tim Krego)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: Re: My take on NAB: 3DS MAX vs. LW 5.0
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 18:53:41 GMT
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On 20 Apr 1996 00:37:42 -0400, [e-mail] (MICHAEL C.
LING) wrote:
>>Volumetric Lights/Shadows      Nope

>I have seen some LWMAX of volumetric stuff and it seemed like poor versions
>of a transparent cone with fractal noise. I think the V.L. effect is faked.

A transparent cone isn't the same thing. VL has depth and shadows. You
had to use the cone trick in 3DSR4 but in MAX you get true VL, no
fakes.

>>Multithreaded                  Nope

>What does this mean?

If you have a multiple CPU machine the program offloads processes to
additional processors. With dual Pentium and Pentium Pro motherboards
available you can get a speed boost for a little more money. And since
speed is the real issue in 3D work...


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From: [e-mail] (Tim Krego)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: Re: LW 5.0 NOT rea<<<blah blah blah
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 18:35:13 GMT
Organization: pro.image
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On 16 Apr 1996 16:04:26 -0400, [e-mail] (Michael Justin
Austin) wrote:
>max is late and the beta demonstrated
>in Jan. in NYC didnt have a render engine

MAX is shipping. Who cares about last Jan, the software was beta then.

>1/2 the kpt filters dont work with my frac design painter 4

16bit or 32bit?

>fdp4 interface comes up in negative colors!

Do you have Device Independent Bitmaps selected in the preferences?



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From: [e-mail] (Tim Krego)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: Re: My take on NAB: 3DS MAX vs. LW 5.0
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 18:35:15 GMT
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On Thu, 18 Apr 96 04:48:23 GMT, [e-mail] (Gord Davison)
wrote:
>>Seamless Plugin Architecture    Nope
> ^^^^^^^^
>  How do you define *seamless*?

Where a plugin works just like it was a feature of the program. This
is in the underlying architecture of MAX and I think LW's plugin
architecture doesn't support it in LW 4.0. I haven't seen LW 5.0, just
the posts, so I don't know if the plugin stuff has been expanded.

For example. In LW Modeler 4.0, Fori's PowerView is an external plugin
that kicks you out of Modeler until you exit. In MAX it is just
another viewport. With LW 5.0 supporting OpenGL that may be fixed, but
other plugins are still external.

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From: [e-mail] (Tim Krego)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: Re: My take on NAB: 3DS MAX vs. LW 5.0
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 18:35:16 GMT
Organization: pro.image
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On Thu, 18 Apr 96 04:48:23 GMT, [e-mail] (Gord Davison)
wrote:
>  BTW, Biped [AFAIK] is $1500. How much is Character Studio?

Biped is now called Character Studio. It may be worth the $1000-1500
price people are quoting. Pricing hasn't been announced, but I saw
mention that it may be $595. That still won't mean much to LW users,
they see that $1495 vs. $3495 price and thats all that matters.

>  Also, how many plug-ins are supplied with MAX? Apparently, over 100
>  are included with LW5.0.

Technically everything in MAX is a plugin, so it is hard to count
since some features would be standard (like a renderer, primitives,
animation). Needless to say, MAX has a very good feature set.

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From: [e-mail] (Tim Krego)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: Re: My take on NAB: 3DS MAX vs. LW 5.0
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 18:37:54 GMT
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On 19 Apr 1996 18:55:05 -0400, [e-mail] (Michael Justin
Austin) wrote:
>Do you see the nt interface as a bonus?
>always thought it was rather ugly myself.

The looks of the interface isn't the point. Ever been in a LW popup
box and you can only use that box without closing it? Little things
like that slow you down. I run 1600x1200 resolution and LW doesn't
really take advantage of the extra screen space. At 1600x1200 you get
one big layout (modeler is nice though). Why can't I use that extra
space to have a surfaces panel open? Or an animation track? The LW
interface is nice, but the Amiga roots are holding it back.

>why do you want to animate the modeling process?

Not the modeling process. You can have animated booleans, etc.

>Many people prefer separate modeler and layout.

When 3DSR4 had seperate Shaper, Lofter, Layout, Keyframer, and
Materials screen people didn't like it.

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From: [e-mail] (Mark Dunakin)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: Re: LightWave 5.0 at NAB
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 21 Apr 96 02:24:50 PST
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SG> For those of you who don't know what it is, Meshpaint allows you to paint
SG> textures directly on an object once you've set up the texture locations.
SG> Like Amazon Paint on the SGI.
----------------
I keep on hearing abvout this MeshPaint and would like to know where do I go
to find out about it?.......thanx..........md

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From: [e-mail] (Phillip Finch)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: More on Metanurbs, etc (long)
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 15:09:36 GMT
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I spent a little time this morning going through the recent archives
of the LW mailing list, looking for info on some of the new features
in 5.0.

Thought some of you might be interested in the following excerpts. The
stuff on Metanurbs is especially interesting. This seems to take
Metaform to a whole new (interactive) dimension. Anyone who has used
Metaform to any extent will realize the potential power of this
feature. If this is right, all the tedious tweaking of vertices that
used to be necessary in Metaform (unless you were good or lucky enough
to get it right the first time) is now a thing of the past.

There's also a comment about Map Motion, a plugin-in-progress that
seems to have all kinds of possibilities.

Personal comment: anybody who thinks $500 is too much for an upgrade
of this magnitude is out of his friggin' head. Considering the time
and effort saved in ease of use, I would probably pay that much for
the shaded preview alone. If the cel shader works, the value of that
is  high, for those who might find a use for it; NewTek is just
throwing it into the package: I can easily imagine a third party
charging a couple of hundred bucks for it.

With any luck, the 5.0 upgrade and Max will be showing up at my
doorstep within the next couple of weeks...and I'll be in Animator
Geek paradise...

Anyway, on to the quoted excerpts from the list, complete archives of
which can be found at:

http://www.albany.net/~dwarner

**********